This is part two of our Q&A with Surly Goat’s Ryan Sweeney. In part one, we talked about The Surly Goat and the history of craft beer. In part two, Ryan reveals the secret of Belgium Beer Knights and Verdugo Bar in Glassell Park.

DET: Tell us about Verdugo Bar.

RS: When we first opened, we just thought we could open. We had run bars before, but we didn’t really understand a lot of things.

DET: Can you tell us about how you got into the bar biz?

RS: I had been managing restaurants here and there. I actually went to film school for undergrad. My first few jobs outside were kind of film-oriented jobs and I very quickly realized that that’s not what I wanted to do. (Laughs)  I remember taking an internship after school at VH1, and it was just like, “No … this is not what I wanted to do.”

DET: So you started working with Match in North Hollywood four or five years ago and then that transitioned into your own thing with your partner Kyle Bilowitz, right?

RS: Yes, we both got really frustrated with this situation where we had a lot of ideas on how to change the place but we weren’t allowed to implement them. Finally we were just going to go ask him one last time if he would let us make some decisions, if not, we were just going to find our own place. They didn’t want to give us any authoritative powers, so we decided to go do our own thing and we found Verdugo. I mean, we got Verdugo because it was what we could afford. I mean, that neighborhood was questionable at best. We knew that the liquor license was amazing. The bar came with the license and it was old. We knew there was potential there, but I mean, it was a gamble. It was in rough shape when we got that place. The neighborhood was the epicenter of evil in Glassell Park.
verdugo-bar-mobile-mash-up-old-man-dance
A good example. This guy came in the bar and we could see he just got released from prison, and he didn’t know we had taken over and redone the place. And he came in, he was like half-drunk by the time he walked in, and he was like, “Oh man, this place… it’s different. It has so much history in my family. My dad was stabbed here.” And we were like… “Ok?” (Laughs)

DET: Oh my God!

RS: It was definitely a rough place, but we just kind of stuck to it and made it happen. When we first opened, we came in and did all the construction and rebuilt it and maybe two weeks in the Health Department shows in and they said, “Looks like you did a great job! By the way, where’s the old water heater?” And the old hot water heater was A) residential, B) too small, C) not attached to the wall… everything was illegal about it. So we had to put in a new hot water heater. And they’re like “Oh, did you get a permit for that?” So we’re like, “No,” and we had to go through this whole process.
We had to bring the standards of this old dive bar from the 30s, which has been neglected for at least 30 years, and bring it up to 2007 health code standards.

Yeah, that’s when I just had the biggest panic attack in my life. I was like, “What the hell did I get myself in to? We have a bar in the middle of like, who knows where the f–k, we can’t even open it, we have to retrofit it.” The irony of all this is that as they’re leaving, there are like taco stands across the street. So we’re like, “What about the taco stands across the street?” And they’re just like, “Oh yeah, there’s just not enough of us to watch over everyone.” Are you kidding me? So, after a lot of ridiculous things and hoop-jumping, we finally passed inspection, but to stay afloat we had to open speak-easy kind of style. When we opened was kind of up in the air. It would have been fall of 2007, but we were just opening on the weekends and stuff after that, and then we got our Health Department pass in March 2008. So it’s kind of hard to say when we “open” opened.

Working Towards Belgium Beer Knight

DET: I want to have you talk a little bit about being a Cicerone, so a little mini-bio of your Cicerone history.

RS: I had always been really big into beer, as long as I could remember, but I was never a brewer. I like to explain it like I’m more of a baseball card collector than a baseball player. I really enjoy learning about the beers and I think the history is really interesting and trying different beers. So I just became a really avid collector who happened to own a bar, and it was always a business write-off trying everything. I know about the BJCP (the Beer Judge Certification Program) but that didn’t really fall in line with what I was doing. I’m not a home-brewer, I don’t have the space to own a kettle,  I’m not making my own beer, I’m really more concerned with what other people are doing, kind of like a food critic. Collecting and knowing what I like and doing things. So I started hearing about a Cicerone program and that they were starting to nationalize it. It was more focused on a Sommelier style, where it was more about educating staff and proper service of beer and teaching people and … kind of baptizing people and being an apostle of beer. That seemed right up my alley, that’s kind of what I wanted to do. So I went online and took the beer server exam and passed that hungover, driving back from Palm Springs, and it was like, “I aced it.” It  was totally up my alley.

I decided I was going to take the Cicerone exam. It was more legitimate because at this point I was starting to get a little bit of attention because of Verdugo, about the beer, and people were coming in and asking me, and kind of – seeing me as someone that could answer the questions they were asking about beer, and, um, I knew for myself, to legitimize for myself and know that like — I’m not crazy, that I do know what I’m talking about. I wanted to take the test. I actually, when I took the test, I was at GABF (the Great American Beer Festival), and I took a review course beforehand with a bunch of other people who were going to take the exam and I felt like I didn’t know anything. I was just like, “Oh my god, what the f–k am I doing?” GABF is the  like the #1 beer festival and all my industry friends were there and everyone was partying. So I was just like, “I’m just going to know what I have to learn, and maybe I’ll take the test and fail, but I’ll know what I have to know for next time.”

So I went out that night, I got completely hammered, just trashed, and woke up in the morning, and I don’t even think I’m going to do it. And my friends said, “Just go do it, you’re up already.” So I went, and I was so… when I took the written part I was really uneasy about it, but then I did the tasting portion. There’s twelve questions, and you have basically three rounds. One was they give you a beer and say, “Is this a good example of this style of beer?” Mine was German Hills Lager. You taste it and you say, “Hmm, no, it seems a little too oaty to me.” So I wrote that, and it wasn’t a German. It wasn’t a good example, there was something off. It turned out to be Public Enemy Pilsner, which is an American Style Pilsner, which would make sense since it’s a little bit more oaty. When I did that, the tasting portion there were three sections, but they could review that right there. At the end of the test, I didn’t feel comfortable. I wanted reschedule the test already. And the Master Cicerone said, “You know what, let me grade it before you’ve decided you’ve failed. Usually I don’t grade it this quickly but I’ll do it for you just to kind of see if you need to come for this test.” Maybe two weeks passed, and the guy called me and said, “You passed, I don’t know what you were worried about, you did fine.”

I didn’t know that I was the first Cicerone in Los Angeles. I mean, I knew that but I didn’t really know it. Which was cool because of that there was a lot more attention, like, “Oh wow, this guy owns a beer bar and he’s taken this test and he’s legitimized to himself and everyone, and hopefully other people will take the test too.” I hope that’s partially why other people are taking the test. I think it’s good for everyone in this industry to be on the same page and take it seriously, because if you have people that are just milking it for the trend it does a disservice for everyone else who’s really taking it seriously. You see more people taking [the Cicerone test], it’s great. Now, I’m studying to be a Master Cicerone, that’s the next part.

DET: That was my next question.

RS: Yeah, definitely, I gotta go for that and to be a Beer Knight. I’m really obsessed with being a Beer Knight.

DET: Tell us about Beer Knights.

RS: Beer Knight is an order in Belgium. It’s hardcore. They closed down the middle of Brussels for the day. There are two ways you can be a Beer Knight. Either by right, where you’re born into a brewing family, or you’re a brewmaster and you get nodded in, or you’re an honorary, where you’re really spreading the word about Belgian beer to people. It’s an old order; it’s been around for a while. Last year, I went to the Belgian Beer Fest’s knighting ceremony. It’s in the oldest cathedral in the Grand Palace, which is the oldest area in Brussels. And it’s serious. Everyone’s all dressed up with all these huge medallions, and it’s part of this order and crazy beer festival where they have every Belgian beer you ever thought of. They have the proper glass at the beer festival for each one and they bring it on tray, I mean not like little picnic tables, like mobile bars. It’s insane. Like, Westvleteren, which is this sought-after, a lot of people say the most sought-after beer in the world. They have a stand there. You say, “I’d like a Westy 12, please,” and they pour it in the right glass and then you’re just like, this is unreal, because usually people have to smuggle this beer in and it’s sold on the black market, and here I am just ordering it.

DET: So there’s no miniature plastic steins on necklaces at this festival? (Laughs)

RS: Nope. Everything is the right glassware. They serve it with like white gloves. It was crazy.

DET: So is that your number one festival memory?

RS: The thing that was really awesome about the Belgian festival is it really kind of brought home how serious some people take this and to me that was so cool because this is my livelihood. It’s very serious to me. It’s something I’m very interested in. It was kind of being in a group of people that took it as serious as well. And you saw how important it was, and it wasn’t just me being fanatical, there’s these other people out here who understand and get it as much as I do.

DET: Is the Belgian Beer Fest a secret?

RS: No, it’s not a secret.

DET: Can anyone go though?

RS: They open it up to the public later and they have big beer festivals, but this is the special one. This is the one to go to because all the industry is there. There’s a council, they get all the robes, it’s on TV, they knight people, the whole deal.

DET: Knighting happens.

RS: Yes, you get a title. Beer Knights are referred to as “Sir” or “Madam.”

DET: So you’d be Sir Ryan.

RS: Yeah. It’s legal, from them.

DET: I can’t wait ’til you’re a knight so I can be like “Sir Ryan, I’d like another beer please…”

RS: Yeah, I’ll carry a sword and ride a horse. It would be awesome. I think the most interesting thing about beer is the history. There’s a lot of interesting things about making beer and that’s one of the things I really love. I’ve been surrounded by wine my entire life. I just have never been able to get into it, it’s just not interesting to me. Wine is created by God; beer is created by man. If wine is screwed up, it’s like, “Oh, it was a bad vintage. It rained too much. There wasn’t enough humidity.” If the beer is bad, it’s like, “You f–ked up the recipe.”

DET: Jesus touched water and the water became wine. It was a trick and you can blame it on weather, whereas with beer you have to accept your own responsibility.

RS: But there’s so many more moving parts. It’s very creative, it’s very artistic. To me, beer is more artistic than wine. In some ways it’s like you’re a chef but with a lot more patience. And if it’s wrong, you don’t know for a while. And I have a lot of admiration for that, but I still think the history is so interesting.

Did you miss the first part of the Q&A? Check it out here.

Additional Information
http://www.verdugobar.com/
http://surlygoat.com/
http://www.cicerone.org/